Lvxferre

I always got this feeling that LMDE will eventually become Mint’s main distro, with the Ubuntu-based version slowly fading away.

I remember. And how much shit the community flung towards them. And their rep is still stained with it, as it should be.

That includes me. Or at least my geospoofed location for the sake of google search (when I need to use it - I’d rather use DDG but… meh), so Google stops trying to sell me local shit.

I got the same issue months ago, with Mint. I have a script to switch audio outputs, and it stopped working after… apt upgrade! Apparently what used to be called “hdmi-stereo” is now “hdmi-stereo-extra1”, no idea why.

In the case of my script, once I got what was going on, I solved it with a simple “if” statement:

if [[ $(pactl list sinks | grep extra) == "" ]]
  then declare -g mainProfile="hdmi-stereo"
  else declare -g mainProfile="hdmi-stereo-extra1"
  fi

(My system uses pulseaudio. Don’t ask me why. I’m not touching it with a 3m pole.)

Bullshit discourse. It fits the second bullet point, the one with “muh chruth”.

(For a serious answer, check OP’s reply.)

That’s me running Debian. Or rather…

FrankenDebian.

You’re being utterly bizarre and seem to have confused the word trope to mean TV trope.

Emphasis mine. For the third and last time,

stop assuming = making shit up

No, I am not confusing tropes with TV Tropes; I’ve linked TVTropes because it’s a good resource to talk about tropes, a subject that YOU introduced through your idiotic “but bully tropes lol haha” reasoning, and it shows two things:

• why your reasoning is garbage (link to Kick the Dog trope)
• why fiction in general is not a reliable way to talk about reality (link to Reality is Unrealistic trope)

You’re inadvertently proving why people like Torvalds chew some individuals out: because they don’t learn with the carrot, you need to metaphorically bash their skulls with a 3m large stick, and unless you use the stick they’ll keep doing the same sort of stupid shit over and over and over. Such as “i dun need to unrurrstand wut dis function does X-D I assooome its fine here lol!!@one lmao!11”, or “I dunno things about ppl on teh inrurrnet but I can assooooome lol”.

At least you’re wasting the time of a nobody in Lemmy with your stupidity… or rather you were, as not even the nobody is willing to waste any time further with your blatant irrationality.

[If anyone else actually bothered to read what that assumer above wrote, and noticed something that is not completely garbage, feel free to point out.]

yep, bully tropes are based on real life bullies

Fiction cannot be used to gauge reality because what matters in fiction is not truth value, it’s entertainment value.

That’s doubly true for villain tropes (bullies are typically villains), since villains are usually assigned a lot of “random” behaviour, for no reason but to make their defeat extra cathartic.

If you want to actually argue that what Torvalds is doing is bully behaviour, you got to do it another way, because what you’re doing now is as bloody stupid as confusing porn with real life sex.

I’m not assuming anything, I’m telling you how you come across

Yes, you are being an assumer. And now a liar, too. I wasn’t born yesterday, and I can easily see the implicature being conveyed by your “lol u sound liek”.

why are you getting all butt hurt

And now you’re being an assumer again. Worse: being an assumer towards things that you cannot reliably know, such as the emotional state of someone on the internet.

Stop wasting my time with off-topic shit that you make up. Unless you want both of us playing this game.

People the can’t get their point across/accepted without belittling other people always come across as pretty insecure to me. “Do as I say or I’ll shit all over you in front of everyone”. It’s like every bully trope ever.

We’re talking about real life, not fiction tropes.

Yeah you sound like one

Stick to the topic instead of assuming (making shit up) about whoever you’re disagreeing with. The topic is Torvalds, not some muppet with a chimp avatar.

There’s many ways to point out the issues with the patch without being a jerk.

Yes, if you don’t mind pointing out again those exact same issues again, because the same person (or potentially someone else) did the same mistake again, as they failed to understand the gravity of the issue again. And again, again, again.

…or alternatively you give the person a good smacking. That’s what Torvalds did, while pointing out those issues again. Carrot and stick

maybe there could’ve been more useful conversations about the concerns (re: tar) that were brought up in the previous message.

Likely not - that tar example was brought to highlight that Torvalds’ suggestion would cause a regression; that’s it. The discussion itself reached a dead end, the solution wouldn’t be to keep the conversation about that, but someone submitting a patch that would neither cause said regression nor misuse the VSF functions.

I honestly do not think that it smacks of insecurity. You can claim that it’s rude, socially insensitive, perhaps even that it smacks of basement dwellers. But insecure? That sounds like assumption for me.

On the other hand, what does stink insecurity for me is the “I need to carefully pick words to avoid breaking someone else’s feelings” attitude.

I thought that you were talking about Torvalds’ attitude, given the context.

Famous email

I wasn’t aware of that email, only the quote itself.

…not gonna lie, I think that it was beautiful. I have my bones to pick with pulseaudio but come on, you don’t shift blame like this, the guy deserved some smacking.

On-topic: I have my doubts if policy is enough to enforce it, or at least to enforce it in an efficient way.

Do we [people in general] have some reason to conclude that it’ll stop or keep working?

And, if it stops working, do we have some reason to conclude that we won’t know why?

I get the likely reason why you don’t find it offensive, but I also get why plenty people do.

Note how the complains are usually towards the usage of “female” as a noun, not as an adjective. That’s because of a small quirk of English, that marks adjective nominalisation rather heavily. To show it with a non-offensive example:

• I got two cats. *The young is a tabby, and *the old is *a bicolour.

That likely sounds fine in the other language[s] that you speak (as it would do in my L1 and L2), but it sounds weird for English speakers - they’d expect “young”, “old” and “bicolour” to be followed by nouns, not to be treated as nouns.

As a result, when you “promote” an adjective to a noun, people usually take it as creating a category aside from whatever category the relevant entities were formerly assigned to. And if the former category was “human beings”, the nominalisation becomes dehumanising.

Another example [now offensive] to highlight this would be:

• “Alice is gay” - most people wouldn’t raise an eyebrow to that
• “Alice is a gay” - since the usage of article forces reading “gay” as a noun, it suddenly sounds dehumanising.

The same process actually does apply to “male”; the main difference is that men aren’t seen as a disfavoured group by society, and people often take that into account when judging the offensiveness of an utterance.

I’ll reply to myself to avoid editing the above (for transparency).

Linux users in this post: think on all issues that you had with your system. Bugs, papercuts, devs assuming use case, regressions (shit stopping working), dependency hell, anything. How many of those issues apply to the kernel, in a way that you can say “the kernel devs fucked it up”? For me, never.

I have a hypothesis, that I do not know the truth value of, that the kernel not annoying the shit out of us users is directly related to Torvalds’ propensity to tell people “your code is GARBAGE”, instead of sugar-coating it. And that free + open source projects where project leaders don’t do this tend to be crappier. (Does anyone here know a good way to falsify this hypothesis?)

I’ll concede that I don’t know what political affiliations you have, but you are definitely acting like many of them do.

If I tell you my political affiliation, will you stop with this bloody stupid attempt of argumentum ad hominem?

I’m mostly Trotskyist, but influenced by Bakunin style anarchism and a few things of the Fabian Society. I don’t usually discuss politics through this account but you can see signs that I’m Marxist here, and signs that I’m socially progressive here.

The issue being discussed is completely orthogonal to politics.

Pedagogy does not refer to teaching children, it refers to teaching in general.

Finally some actual argument. I hereby retract the point concerning infantilisation, then.

The point about screaming (“think on the feelings!”) still applies however. He’s dealing with adults, not children. You’re expected to

1. Be responsible enough to not be a burden in any collective task that you might join.
2. Correct your mistakes. (More later on this.)
3. Not lose your marbles because someone highlighted that the output of your work is less than desirable.

(You’re also expected to not be assumptive as a brick, but… eh.)

Teaching others when working with software is expected, and it is expected to do so in an effective manner.

You know what’s expected when working with software? Working with software. Stopping the development to spoonfeed others is at most secondary.

And even then, Torvalds went out of his way to instruct the muppet in question on what he did wrong. (You probably didn’t bother checking the context of the utterance, right? Go figure.) And that “AGAIN” shows that he did it multiple times, and the other guy was not correcting his mistake.

Now you’re just grasping at straws,

“This is wrong cuz I said so, chrust me” is not an argument.

and this continues the trend of acting like a right-winger which I mentioned before.

Refer to what I said at the start.

For what it’s worth, I’ve worked with plenty of Finnish developers

Anecdotal evidence, “chrust me” style. Plus outright distorting what I said, thus straw man. *rolls eyes*

At this rate it’s somewhat clear that you are really eager to be at least disingenuous, if not worse (irrational). Since there’s another poster trying to back up similar reasoning as yours, minus the blatant idiocy, I’ll simply disregard your further “contributions”.

“Thank you for your contribution! Sadly, it was rejected. But don’t feel discouraged, try it again!” Your comment is garbage and you are not contributing jack shit with this discussion.

This comment is giving me a lot of ‘rightwinger calling others snowflakes’-vibes.

I’ll copy and paste what I just told another poster, assuming the same shit: I’m not a right winger, nor acting as one. Stop making shit up / assuming shit about other users as a diversion tactic, and stick to the discussion.

Also, don’t be disingenuous. I’m not calling anyone a snowflake here; as I’ve already highlighted across this thread that this shit is rooted in human nature. You do this, I do this, everyone does this, it is not a “snowflake thing”, even if problematic. Is this clear???

Did you know that yelling is not a particularly effective technique pedagogically?

Emphasis mine. If you’re treating adults as if they were kids, as shown by the reference to pedagogy, then you’re being far more offensive than Torvalds.

Also, Torvalds is a kernel developer. He is not a teacher. It is not his job to stop kernel development to teach PR submitter #91294556 “oh my little poor thing! We seem to be really confused with this function, aren’t we? Yes, we are! Here, let Mr. Linus help us, clueless thing. Aren’t we happy today? If you understood it, then say «YAY! THANK YOU MR. LINUS!»”.

Side note: it just clicked me that you guys are being culturally insensitive and imperialistic, given that a lot of Torvalds’ no-bullshit behaviour is likely cultural in nature.

I didn’t call your approach stupid because I don’t think that it’s stupid, even if I disagree with it.

The modified verbiage obfuscates the message in a way which only impedes understanding aiding growth but not understanding evoking drama?

If the message wasn’t delivered, there’s a high chance of further interactions that might create drama in the future. The quote in the OP is an example of that - in the original context there’s an “AGAIN” that shows that it was not the first time that Steven Rostedt submitted a patch with the exact same issue.

So I believe that, even if you might get less drama now because the message wasn’t understood, you’ll end getting it later anyway.

Also, Torvalds’ message does promote growth, if read fully. Even with the “your code is garbage”, he’s still explaining:

• which function should be used there, atomic64_add_return()
• the purpose of get_next_ino() and other VSF functions
• that Rostedt is addressing what Torvalds believe to be a “made up problem”
• that Rostedt should read further info on the core functions, before using them

it’s just that the quote picks the spicy bit and leaves the boring carb behind.

Only a shit boss would fire someone for making mistakes instead of correcting them.

Most bosses are shitty.

Also drop the whole pretentious right whinger act, you’re not a tough guy online.

I’m not a right winger, nor acting as one. Stop making shit up / assuming shit about other users as a diversion tactic, and stick to the discussion.